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Scriptorium

The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or start a new one; please see Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help. If a topic seems resolved, please mark with {{subst:section resolved|1=~~~~}}.

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Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient. For discussion related to the entire project (not just the English chapter), please discuss at the multilingual Wikisource. There are currently 686 active users here.

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Announcements

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The Score extension has been temporarily disabled

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More details at Enwiki Village pump (technical).

We do not have a timeline for re-enabling it yet, but a fix is in progress.

we disabled it last night after finding a thorny bug. It'll be disabled at least through the weekend until more people come online in business hours on Monday.

Practically for us at Wikisource, it seems that editing or purging a page that already has a musical score on it, or adding a new musical score, will cause the musical score to be replaced with a "Musical scores are temporarily disabled". Edderiofer (talk) 04:16, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Proposals

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Bot approval requests

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Repairs (and moves)

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Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource

See also Wikisource:Scan lab

Uploaded as a higher quality replacement for Index:Geometrical considerations and nomenclature for reflectance.pdf

However IA-upload decided to misalign the text layer by one page due to calibration pages being included in the scans, It was not possible to determine this would happen during the upload process via IA-upload.

Can SOMEONE ELSE, build a good version from both files? Thanks . If the tools are going to be un-coperative, I will be making upload requests directly at Scan Requests or here, rather than attempting to work with 'glitching' tools. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:01, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

@ShakespeareFan00: Done. The cache is not yet consistent for me (after page 52). • M-le-mot-dit (talk) 12:59, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Still doesn't look right to me. I'll leave it , and then suggest someone else sits down very carefully and figures out which version is good. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:12, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Looks good -

Please migrate pages from - Index:Geometrical considerations and nomenclature for reflectance.pdf to Index:Geometrical considerations and nomenclature for reflectance (IA geometricalconsi160nico).djvu and delete the PDF based index. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Please move to Index:Intelligence Services Act 1994 (UKPGA 1994-13 qp).pdf. I've already request move on commons in order to disambiguate with the south african act with the same name. ToxicPea (talk) 17:38, 25 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Other discussions

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WSExport

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I haven't seen any other discussions of this here, so just to say it seems the WSExport tool for exporting ebooks, etc. is currently down. --YodinT 10:51, 9 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Now fixed. --YodinT 09:27, 10 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
Great. And even the .pdf is now working, which it hadn't for quite a while. -- Beardo (talk) 17:48, 10 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

This problem appears to be back again. I got a report (see ticket:2026092710006585) and when trying the same, PDF export fails for me as well. --AFBorchert (talk) 21:50, 7 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

I too have found the .pdf export failing again recently. -- Beardo (talk) 01:25, 8 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Epub seems to be working fine, but I'm also getting a 503 error when trying to export as pdf. Have raised this on the Phab task. @AFBorchert are you saying that pdf export is not working for you at OTRS, or here, or both? --YodinT 09:57, 8 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
@Yodin: This is a misunderstanding. We have an open VRT (it is no longer called OTRS) ticket about PDF export not working at Wikisource. There is no such thing as an export function for VRT. I am just talking about Wikisource and I am one of the few who responds to VRT tickets related to Wikisource. Thanks for updating the phrabicator ticket. --AFBorchert (talk) 10:34, 8 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Ah! I see, thanks for the clarification. --YodinT 10:46, 8 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Deprecating category parameter in headers

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Including categories directly in the header is a pain; among other things, it is not compatible with the HotCat tool. I therefore suggest that the categories parameter be deprecated. The issue was already discussed a few years ago (see Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2020-09#Deprecate category parameter in headers) where it was agreed that it makes maintenance difficult, but the outcome was never implemented. -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:50, 25 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Just for clarification: I suggest just disabling the manual categorization through the header parameter, categorization through Wikidata should stay, of course. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:55, 25 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
The only categories which are regularly added are Category:Monthly Challenge. What would be done with them? I find Category:Translated indexes quite useful. Yann (talk) 20:08, 25 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
Also categories can be very well added with HotCat: . Yann (talk) 20:11, 25 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
That is not what I mean. I just suggest disabling the categories parameter in the header of the mainspace pages, so that edits like this one would not be possible. Although it is still possible to add new categories with HotCat, those added from the header are not possible to be changed or removed with this tool. I cannot see any advantage to this approach. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:59, 26 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
OK, understood. I don't have a definitive opinion on that. Yann (talk) 19:57, 26 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
I agree that there's no reason for the parameter; all categories can be added at the end of the page as normal. --YodinT 11:20, 2 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

@CalendulaAsteraceae: as the major editor of Module:Header–Do you think you could provide this? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:51, 9 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Jan.Kamenicek: Sure, I'm happy to take care of editing the module. If we have consensus, I can edit the documentation to say the category parameter has been deprecated, and I can disable it once we've cleared out the pages in Category:Works using categories parameter. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 21:24, 9 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-39

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MediaWiki message delivery 11:56, 27 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Proofread of the Month

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The Proofread of the Month work is completed. Should a new work be added right now, or should we wait for October 1st? Yann (talk) 18:41, 27 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Yann Usually, when it is close to the end of the month, I believe Wikisource:Validation of the Month (or something like it) is displayed instead. Not sure how to make that happen though. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:55, 27 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
OK, good idea. So I added Index:Popular Science Monthly Volume 19.djvu, which is one of the index to be validated in the waiting list. It also fits within the "Science/Technology" them. Only I don't know what to do about the author, since there is none. Yann (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
The cover says "Conducted by E. L. and W. J. Youmans" - shouldn't they be shown as editors? -- Beardo (talk) 02:44, 28 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-40

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MediaWiki message delivery 10:49, 28 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Help naming author

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What should I name the author page for w:Donald Mackenzie (trader)? Donald Mackenzie needs to be a disambig page for both him and Donald Alexander Mackenzie. He doesn't have an established birth year for a lifetime spread. Eievie (talk) 22:09, 28 September 2026 (UTC)Reply

Hathi thinks that the Donald Mackenzie who wrote The Khalifate of the West https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001609171 is the same "Donald Alexander Mackenzie" and The Flooding of the Sahara https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/005725886 is at least "Donald A. Mackenzie". Does anyone know any authorship research tricks to figure out whether this is actually true? Eievie (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
For the first question, maybe "Donald Mackenzie (1840-)"? for now
I don't have any fancy tricks and unfortunately I don't think HathiTrust links to a unique author identifier, but from the VIAF entries I'd say the one born c. 1840 could maybe also just have the same name. At least we know for sure that Flooding of the Sahara published 1877 could only have been authored by the Mackenzie born 1840 and not the one born 1873. And the description of The Khalifate of the West then only matches the biography of the former, too. Neon700 (talk) 07:49, 29 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
If I were creating it, I would name it Author:Donald Mackenzie (b. c. 1840) (b.c. meaning born circa, if that wasn't clear)—Beleg Âlt BT (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2026 (UTC)Reply
This is an interesting one; after looking into it in as much detail as I can, there are very few records that say when he was born (only one secondary source I came across says "around 1840", and that seems to be a guess; passenger records suggest he was born in 1849), and none that say when he died. As an anti-slavery and prison reform campaigner, who founded a town of 8,000 people as recently as 1882 (see the before and after pictures here), I'm surprised so little is known about his early and later life. Quite a few books and articles say he was the author of both The Flooding of the Sahara and The Khalifate of the West, so I think it's a pretty safe assumption. I've added what I've found for now at Author talk:Donald Mackenzie (1840–), and hope to add more details if/when I find more, as well as uploading his portrait to Commons/Wikidata. @Eievie: would you object if I moved the page to Author:Donald Mackenzie (1849–) or Author:Donald Mackenzie (b. 1849) based on this? --YodinT 20:31, 3 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
I see that the works lists has The Khalifate of the West listed under both - as does Wikipedia.-- Beardo (talk) 20:39, 3 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
It's definitely not by Donald Alexander Mackenzie, and the list here seems to be copied from Wikipedia, so I've removed it here and on Wikipedia. --YodinT 21:10, 3 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
FYI I see records for him living up until 1913 in Woodcot, South Godstone Surrey, followed by a move to Neville House, Tatsfield where he is registered as a voter in 1914. MarkLSteadman (talk) 21:53, 3 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Category removals in watchlist?

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Hi! I’ve had Category:Texts with missing musical scores on my watchlist for a while. Plus, I’ve transcribed a few musical scores myself, causing some pages to be removed from the category. Indeed I’m seeing the number of pages in the category go down. However, I’m not seeing the category removals on my watchlist — neither my own nor anyone else’s. Is this expected behaviour? Is there something I’m doing wrong? Is there a way to get a list of most recently transcribed music scores? — Timwi (talk) 07:32, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

I should have mentioned: I did turn on “Category changes” in the filter, and I did turn off “Hide categorization of pages” in the User Preferences. — Timwi (talk) 07:55, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
I think that the watchlist would only show changes to the actual text on that category page - if you click on edit, you will see what is there. The pages that are in the category are populated automatically, and so changes in them are not reflected in the watchlist. -- Beardo (talk) 13:52, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Done — The answer is that Category:Texts with missing musical scores is a hidden category, and for that to show up, in addition to the two options I already mentioned, you also need to enable “Show hidden categories” in Preferences → Appearance → Advanced options. — Timwi (talk) 15:22, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
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(Apologies for cross-posting in English, translating it will help spread the message)

Editors on group 1 wikis, including Wikiquote, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, Wikivoyage, and Wikisource, will no longer see notifications on Recent Changes and Watchlist when a link to another language version of a page is added, removed, or changed in its Wikidata item. This change will begin on October 5 at 07:00 UTC as a two-week trial to reduce high-volume, low-value notifications and make higher-value changes easier to identify. Editors who rely on these notifications should be aware of the change and can share feedback or concerns on the project or talk page.
Please reach out if you have any questions, thank you! -- Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) sent via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:42, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Google OCR not working

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Now I get the error: Resource has been exhausted (e.g. check quota)

Does Google restrict access from Wikimedia? Ankry (talk) 19:02, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Are you still getting this error message? It seems to be working for me, and I haven't noticed any problems recently, but it has occasionally stopped working in the past. --YodinT 11:23, 2 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Problem with LST section headers

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The behavior for LST headers (##s1) has changed. Now, there is no line break, causing issues like this page, where all of the sections blend together. This is obviously unintended and undesirable behavior because of some coding change; could this change be reversed? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:16, 1 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Could this be because of Parsoid? --YodinT 11:15, 2 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Have just checked this by clicking "Switch to legacy parser" for the page, which does resolve it. The Parsoid team are quite responsive to reports here and it doesn't seem to be listed at the Known Issues or Known differences pages, so I think they'd appreciate the feedback that they've broken something! --YodinT 11:30, 2 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Only one interface administrator

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In my opinion, since there is only one interface administrator (Xover), I would probably recommend the community to at least elect one or two more interface administrators, instead of only having one. Thank you. Codename Noreste /// ⭐️✨ 23:21, 3 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

We had three, but due to inactivity two of them were not confirmed at their most recent !vote. The community expectation for interface administrators has been that they are experienced administrators here already and that they have an interest in and the appropriate knowledge for administering the interface. If any of the current administrators would be interested in adding the role, please let me or @BD2412: know. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:05, 4 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Wikisource:Interface administrators has very little information. I am not an admin here (I am on mul:), but I am knowledgeable enough about CSS and MediaWiki (and a little bit about JavaScript), and I have these rights on other WMF wikis, so I would be willing to assist here as well. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:17, 4 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-41

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18:52, 5 October 2026 (UTC)

Slash and burn

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If I understand it right, this is a translation of a book originally published in Norwegian, but never published in English besides this "Wiki version". At the same time the translation was done by the author himself and released through OTRS, but added to Wikisource by a different user. I am not sure what to do with this, as the mainspace is for previously published works. Should it be moved to the translation NS, although it was not translated by a Wikisource user? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:25, 6 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Now I have noticed that the pictures used for illustration are not from the original publication. It seems that our version is not just a simple translation, but in fact a new compiled edition of the work which has never existed outside Wikisource. The Norwegian Wikisource version contains different pictures, and as it is not scanbacked, I suspect it is another compilation different from ours (for example File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison-no.png, which is included in the no.ws version, could surely not have been included in the original book). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Chapter titles in The Story of My Experiments With Truth

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The chapter titles of the two volumes are formatted the same but are transcribed differently Volume 1 uses {{asc}} and Volume 2 uses {{smaller}}. Could we have someone change one of them for consistency? ToxicPea (talk) 06:38, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Isn't the result exactly the same? If yes, why would it matter? Yann (talk) 15:40, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
{{smaller}} is bigger than {{asc}}. It's {{x-smaller}} that the size of {{asc}} is equivalent to. ToxicPea (talk) 15:44, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
It's not a huge difference, but {{asc}} does also squash the capital letters a bit (a vs. A vs. A), and copies as a lower-case letter, rather than a capital. --YodinT 16:26, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
OK. So what should be chosen: {{asc}} or {{smaller}}? The later is more work, as all titles have to be changed to capitals. Yann (talk) 19:05, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
All the titles are already capitals anyway so it doesn't matter. ToxicPea (talk) 19:12, 10 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
The book looks like it's using small caps to me rather than a smaller font size. --YodinT 11:04, 11 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
OK, I will fix that with {{asc}}. Yann (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Checkmark This section is considered resolved, for the purposes of archiving. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Yann (talk) 20:58, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Transclusion logistics

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I just created Flower Fairies of the Spring, which uses {{side by side pages}}, and I noticed the work's CSS seems absent. I then tried creating {{flexbox side by side pages}}, hoping to iron out the issues of {{side by side pages}}.

A normal

<pages index="file name.djvu" include=5 />

doesn't seem to work when the index name is a variable. {{side by side pages}} gets around this by using

{{#section:PageTitle|file name.djvu/5}}

This seems to be what cuts out the CSS file. Can anyone give me insight into how this works?? Eievie (talk) 00:06, 11 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

I figured out that
<pages index="file name.djvu" include=5 />
works if I call it from a Lua module. However, pages transcluded that way don't mark as transcluded from the index "Transclusion check". Does anyone know how to fix that? Eievie (talk) 03:55, 11 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
WhatLinksHere for the individual scan pages also doesn't list them as being transcluded into mainspace. This sounds like a bug worth reporting on Phabricator. --YodinT 09:39, 11 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

<ref follow=""></ref> is behaving like a normal footnote in page namespace

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I'm finding that footnotes within <ref follow="pxxx"></ref> now have inline links in page namespace. See for example this page:

Page:The Dissertations of Maximus Tyrius - Vol I & II.djvu/205

The footnote which is a continuation from the previous page now has a [2] superscript link, and it's listed as footnote 2 on the page. Pasicles (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

This is another Parsoid issue (the footnote works as expected if you use the "Switch to legacy parser" link in the Tools menu). TE(æ)A,ea reported this here a couple of days ago, as well as some other Parsoid-related issues a bit over a week ago, but there doesn't seem to be a reply from the Parsoid team yet. --YodinT 13:14, 12 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Footnote quirk inside Ppoem

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If you use '+>' at the beginning of a line that immediately follows a line with a footnote in it, the footnote appears twice in Page space (it also does so when the page is transcluded). As an example, if you replace {{hidden text|Him with his legions.}} with '+>' on Page:The Poetical Works of Samuel Rogers (1892, revised Aldine edition).djvu/240, you should hopefully see the effect. It seems to occur regardless of where the footnote is within the line. Chrisguise (talk) 14:38, 12 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Should be fixed? Normally references are removed now. — Alien  3
3 3
17:32, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Does seem to be OK. Thanks. Chrisguise (talk) 22:06, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-42

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MediaWiki message delivery 07:39, 13 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Possible spammer

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User:~2026-55430-53 is creating non-transcluded, unsourced pages (Sokoli Tomari Iccha, Bengali Religious Lyrics, Śākta (1923)) and also removing the {{no source}} template when it's rightly added. (). I think this may be a spammer. Eievie (talk) 01:10, 16 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

They don't look like a spammer to me. More like a new user who doesn't understand the way things should be done here. -- Beardo (talk) 02:53, 16 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Monthly Challenge (no expiry)

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Hi, I notice that some works have been in this section for ages without change. I wonder what is the point to keep them if nobody seems to be interested. Since January 2026: The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night (volume 1), History of Greece (Volume 2), National Geographic (Volume 2). Opinions? Yann (talk) 15:05, 17 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

@Yann Technically not nobody, as volume 1's for two of those series were finished. But if there remains no interest at present, then happy to remove them come November. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:07, 17 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
OK, I replaced these 3 with other works in the waiting list. Hopefully these will bring more activity. Yann (talk) 19:33, 25 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
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The logo for the Wikimedia Café

Hello! There will be two Wikimedia Café discussion opportunities in October. In a change from the usual Café practice, this month's sessions will have different topics. Anyone who meets the Café attendance criteria is welcome to attend either or both sessions.

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༄ᨒ𖠰 Pine (✉) 06:23, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Musical scores are temporarily disabled

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Is there some reason that musical scores have been disabled sitewide? See, e.g., "Daisy Bell", "The Entertainer", "Transit of Venus" --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:34, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

See "The Score extension has been temporarily disabled" in the Announcements section above. -- Beardo (talk) 14:07, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

A discussion was started regarding the name of this page on User talk:Jan.Kamenicek. We have agreed to move this discussion to the Scriptorium. The contents of the discussion up to now are as follows.

I have no idea why you decided to move the ordinance’s title to the long title, especially it contains a citable, official short title. The move is also contrary to the previous practice for other Commonwealth legislation. Can you please explain?廣九直通車 (talk) 05:16, 14 October 2026 (UTC)

@廣九直通車: Hello. I moved it because the actual name of the document used by its authors is An Ordinance to provide enhanced punishments for the offences of abduction and criminal intimidation in certain circumstances, see its first page. In Wikisource we always use the original titles. Will you move it back, please? If you know of any other documents which were not named here by their original titles, and if you point them out, I can rename them too. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:02, 14 October 2026 (UTC)
And please also see section 1 of the Ordinance as well! If you don’t know, in most common law jurisdictions, primary legislation has two titles: the long title (e.g. An Ordinance to provide enhanced punishments for the offences of abduction and criminal intimidation in certain circumstances) and short title (e.g. Abduction, and Criminal Intimidation of Witnesses Ordinance, 1947). Both are official titles, though the short title is the title most commonly used. If you look at other legislation, you will also find they are named after their short title.廣九直通車 (talk) 23:37, 14 October 2026 (UTC)
There is two another problems if you use the long title as the title on Wikisource: (1) long titles tend to be very long, and some recent legislation can have over 100 words in the long title (let alone some with extraordinarily long ones like the Criminal Justice Act 1988): remember wikis only allow 255 bytes at page titles; and (2) long titles can be identical, especially for amending legislation; while for short titles, they are meant to be unique identifiers within the jurisdiction.廣九直通車 (talk) 05:34, 15 October 2026 (UTC)
@廣九直通車: I think the misunderstanding is that you are confusing the common name of a work with the title of a specific edition. While a work can be known by various names, an edition has one specific title (sometimes accompanied by a subtitle), which is usually printed on the first page. On Wikisource, we have version pages, which are connected to the work and contain links to its editions, and mainspace pages, which contain the texts of specific editions. The page we are discussing contains the text of a specific edition and should therefore be titled according to the title under which that edition was originally published. The title Abduction, and Criminal Intimidation of Witnesses Ordinance, 1947 does not appear anywhere in this edition. The actual title can be found on its first page. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:18, 17 October 2026 (UTC)
The title is Abduction, and Criminal Intimidation of Witnesses Ordinance, 1947 is literally in the first paragraph. It states “This Ordinance may be cited as the Abduction, and Criminal Intimidation of Witnesses, Ordinance, 1947, and shall come into force on the 10th day of June, 1947.” ToxicPea (talk) 07:52, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
Well, it is not really the title of the edition, which is only one. It is a shortened version of the title which "may" be used for citation, it is not the full title. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:33, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
From a legal standpoint that’s a distinction without a difference. The short title is not just a nickname, it has legal significance. For all intents and purposes the short title and the long title are both equally valid as titles. ToxicPea (talk) 16:46, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
Quite possibly. That is why it is fine to use it in citations. But it is still a short version of the title, not the full title. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:48, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
Legally that’s not a difference. If an act says “This Act may be cited as X” that is legally the same as saying, “X is the title of this Act”. The short title is not just a short version of the long title. It is legally another separate full title that is equally as valid as the long title.
This is not some ordinary book with multiple editions. This is an act with the force of law. Those of us who work on law related works use slightly different conventions on law related works than on regular works because law is different to other works and should be treated differently. No one has had a problem with this until now. ToxicPea (talk) 17:02, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
Is it okay if I move this discussion to WS:S? ToxicPea (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2026 (UTC)
Of course, a good idea. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:30, 18 October 2026 (UTC)

I would also like to ping @Penguin1737: and @DraftSaturn15:. They also work on legislation and may want to comment on this. ToxicPea (talk) 17:35, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Personally having categories full of An Ordinance to provide ... and An Act to ... so all legislation are grouped under A for act makes them less valuable. An Act To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2012 all grouped under A for Act is instead of looking for it under National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, nevermind An Act To provide for reconciliation pursuant to title II of S. Con. Res 14. for the Inflation Reduction Act and An Act To provide for reconciliation pursuant to title II of H. Con. Res. 14. for the One Beautiful Bill is even more obscure and unhelpful. MarkLSteadman (talk) 18:06, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Are page after page of An Act to provide for, An Act to authorize in categories and portals in any situation better than being able to click on N to skip ahead to to National Defense...? MarkLSteadman (talk) 18:11, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
I am of the opinion that the short title should be used as the mainspace page title where it is provided for by the legislation. The short title is the most commonly used form to cite Acts, Ordinances, etc, as 廣九直通車 pointed out in the original talk page. Almost all legislation that has been drafted in the 20th century to present will have short titles. I am going to use a few Australian examples as that is what I am most familiar with but a lot of common law and Commonwealth [of Nations] countries use very similar conventions.
Of course, the Acts Interpretation Act 1901 (Cth) does not apply to us but it can be a guide that we follow when determining procedure such as how to title works. Acts may be cited by the short title, secular year and number, and its Federal Register of Legislation ID (Acts Interpretation Act 1901 (Cth), s 40(1A)(a)). It does not provide for the citing using long titles of Acts. The provision uses the word "may" but that would be to allow for some flexibility but I have not seen any examples of the long title being used in modern legislation. No modern drafter would ever use the long title of an act when drafting legislation. This was not the case in the past before short titles were invented when acts would have been cited in a very long-winded way as "an Act of Council made and passed the 8th day of February in the Year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty-five intituled 'An Act to regulate of licenses for the Sale of Spirits Ale Beer and other Liquors in New South Wales and Van Diemen's respectively'" (Fines and Penalties Recovery Act 1825 (NSW)) or by the regnal citation.
The Australian Guide to Legal Citation is used by academia (as far as I see, no Australian courts use this style) as the primary referencing style for law. Rule 3.1.1 states that the short title should be used and that the long title should only be used if there is not short title (Australian Guide to Legal Citation 4th ed, p 67). A similar provision appears in Oxford University Standard for Citation of Legal Authorities 5th ed at page 25. In Hong Kong, the short title gives the ordinance its name (Drafting Legislation in Hong Kong, p 11, item 2.2.2). The Federal Court of Australia practice note Lists of Authorities and Citations Practice Note (GPN-AUTH), states in the Annexure that the long title should only be used if there is not sort title; for reference a practice note sets out procedure for lawyers and parties to follow. The only times I have seen judges use long titles are to give further context relating to the Act itself: Hoxton Park Residents Action Group Inc v Liverpool City Council [2016] NSWCA 157 at [27]; Doyle’s Farm Produce Pty Ltd atf Claredale Family Trust v Murray-Darling Basin Authority [2026] NSWSC 1036 at [201]; Australian Securities and Investments Commission v Auto & General Insurance Company Limited [2025] FCAFC 76 at [40]; Davey on behalf of the Gudanji, Yanyuwa and Yanyuwa-Marra Peoples v Northern Territory of Australia (No 5) (McArthur River Project Compensation Claim) [2026] FCA 153 at [163].
Practically, if a person is going to search for legislation, the short title will come to mind. For example if someone wants to search for their workplace rights, that person will search for "Fair Work" or "Fair Work Act", not "An Act relating to workplace relations, and for related purposes". While long titles in other jurisdictions like the United Kingdom might be very long, such as the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (UK), Australian legislation has been using shorter and more generic long titles (Office of Parliamentary Council Drafting Direction 1.1 at [1]). The short title also includes the year the legislation was enacted which is useful to know at an instant.
For example, the following acts all have the same long title of "An Act to amend the Fair Work Act 2009, and for related/other purposes", the short titles are more descriptive, practical, and sortable (as MarkLSteadman said):
  • Fair Work Amendment (State Referrals and Other Measures) Act 2009
  • Fair Work Amendment (Textile, Clothing and Footwear Industry) Act 2012
  • Fair Work Amendment Act 2015
  • Fair Work Amendment (Respect for Emergency Services Volunteers) Act 2016
  • Fair Work Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Act 2017
  • Fair Work Amendment (Corrupting Benefits) Act 2017
  • Fair Work Amendment (Supporting Australia’s Jobs and Economic Recovery) Act 2021
  • Fair Work Amendment (Baby Priya’s) Act 2025
  • Fair Work Amendment (Fairer Fuel) Act 2026
I agree that having categories and portals with entries that have "An Act to … and for related purposes" looks cluttered and inelegant.
Wikisource is a library. One of the goals for libraries is quick and intuitive access to resources for everyone. As I have stated earlier, almost no-body uses the long title to search for or to refer to a specific piece of legislation (I do not have data for actual usage but based on the practice of legislative drafters, academia, and the judiciary), so I believe it would be counter-productive for Wikisource as a library to have the long title be the main title. —DraftSaturn15 (talk) 05:14, 19 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
I believe we should prefer full titles to shortened titles whenever possible. This specific edition is titled in some way at the top of the page, and only then inside the text a shortened version of the title is suggested for the purpose of citations, but that is imo no reason why it should be used for the page name. Our common practice is full titles. —unsigned comment by Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 21:53, 18 October 2026.
I don't believe our common practice is full titles: e.g. A General History of the Pyrates, whose full title as used on A General History of the Pyrates/Volume 1 is at the very least "A General History of the Pyrates, from Their first Rise and Settlement in the Island of Providence, to the present Time." (Also cf. A General History of the Pyrates/Volume 2, which just calls itself "A History of the Pyrates, ..." on the title page. In the case of these laws, I see no reason to use the long title.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:26, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
It's Hamlet (Shakespeare) not The Tragicall Historie of Hamlet Prince of Denmarke, Twelfth Night (Shakespeare) not Twelfe Night, Or what you will it's King James Version not THE HOLY BIBLE, Conteyning the Old Teſtament, AND THE NEW: Newly Tranſlated out of the Originall tongues: & with former Tranſlations diligently compared and reuiſed, by his Majesties ſpeciall Comandement, it's Utopia (More) not A truly golden little book, not less beneficial than enjoyable, about how things should be in a state and about the new island Utopia etc. We certainly aren't consistent currently... MarkLSteadman (talk) 02:05, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Another example An Essay on the Principle of Population vs. An Essay on the Principle of Population as It Affects the Future Improvement of Society, with Remarks on the Speculations of Mr. Godwin, M. Condorcet, and Other Writers MarkLSteadman (talk) 02:13, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
In almost all of the examples mentioned above, I am afraid version pages for works (where one title must be chosen to encompass multiple editions of different titles) are confused with titles of specific editions. However, it is the titles of editions that we are discussing here. Your point could therefore probably be better illustrated by Hamlet (1917) Yale, which is not titled The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark for some reason, although I believe it should be.
In the last example, “An Essay on the Principle ... M. Condorcet, and Other Writers”, you also included the subtitle, which nobody is suggesting. The full title would simply be An Essay on the Principle of Population as It Affects the Future Improvement of Society, and that is what I consider appropriate.
A General History of the Pyrates is an interesting example, since the continuation “From Their first Rise...” is separated from the main title only by a comma, but is printed in a significantly smaller font. It is therefore somewhere on the borderline between being part of the title and being a subtitle, so leaving it out makes sense.
There will always be special cases that can be dealt with individually when there is a good reason to do so—for example, when a title extends over several screen widths. In general, though, I think we should prefer the full original titles. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:52, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Even if you look at editions: Shakespeare - First Folio facsimile (1910)/The Tragedy of Hamlet, Shakespeare - First Folio facsimile (1910)/Twelfe Night, Bible (King James Version, 1611), even ignoring Utopia which is unsourced. My point still stands that we haven't been consistent about using full titles. MarkLSteadman (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Not only are not consistent about using full titles, I can find no such policy that would imply that full titles are preferred. I also have no idea what benefit there would be to such a policy. ToxicPea (talk) 23:37, 20 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
This moving pages from a short version of a title to the full version has happened before. A user changed the title of Executive Order 13971 to Executive Order on Addressing the Threat Posed by Applications and Other Software Developed or Controlled by Chinese Companies. This was raised and debated in the Scriptorium and the consensus appears to be that Executive Order ##### should be the page title and not the full name. That is reflected in WikiProject United States Executive Orders where the titling is codified as Executive Order #####. —DraftSaturn15 (talk) 00:15, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Speaking of which, would appreciate if someone could go through all of Joe Biden's orders on Author:Joseph Robinette Biden/Executive orders and move those to Executive Order ##### ToxicPea (talk) 00:24, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Oppose using long titles, where Short title exists

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Having set up extensive templates to handle short titles for English Acts (which can run to 5 or more lines if you quote the full title), using the short title i simply more convenient. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:12, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Not sure why your opposition needs a specific heading Well, some titles can be too long to handle, but this one is within common WS limits (far from "5 or more lines"), there are many much longer titles in Wikisource. That is why I wrote "whenever possible". When the original edition prefers the full title at the top and only somewhere in the text suggests a shortened version for a specific purpose (citation), we should be faithful to the original and prefer the full title. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
As you seem to determined to push for long titles, I'll start removing my templated approach, so you are not obstructed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:26, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
??? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:29, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Module behind : {{Short-title}} has had link generation removed until there is a clear strategy for linking, and all items transrcribed or linked under their short titles are placed at what you consider to be their "appropriate" titles. It also conveniently solves the template expansion limits that were being hit on a number of items I'd worked on extensively. Reach your decision and I can start manually updating every single table entry in the Short Titles Act 1896, In the tables at the start of Ruffhead, and so on. We want Wikisource to use the "correct" titles of course. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:35, 18 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Also the module as currently written only works for English/United Kingdom acts, and doesn't take into account other jurisdictions which follow British practice, or develolved assemblies. I am slowly deprecating it to allow for an overhaul. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:56, 19 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-43

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MediaWiki message delivery 14:38, 19 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Spammer

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@~2026-56028-00 is spam editing. Can we get a block? Eievie (talk) 04:15, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Rollbacked, but only 6 edits and quickly stopped activity so doesn't warrant a block as of now. — Alien  3
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08:58, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Validation request

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I am asking for a validation of https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Glaucus,_or,_The_wonders_of_the_shore_(IA_glaucusorwonders00kings).pdf. Pages 1-178 out of roughly 240 pages are ready for validation.

Thank you! QuarrySparrow (talk) 09:19, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

OCR tool not working

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Don't know if anyone else is having this issue, but the OCR tool hasn't been working for me all day. All three 'engines' return 'No text was returned by the OCR tool'. Chrisguise (talk) 14:52, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

It would not surprise me as there is major security work going on: https://diff.wikimedia.org/2026/10/21/impact-of-php-vulnerabilities-on-wikimedia-tools-and-services/ 15:32, 21 October 2026 (UTC) MarkLSteadman (talk) 15:32, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
See where it lists Cloud VPS as offline. MarkLSteadman (talk) 22:09, 21 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. Chrisguise (talk) 04:13, 22 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Just wanted to mention that services (but not OCR, it uses php) have started to be restored if you look at the page. Thanks to anyone reading this who has been working to keep Wikisource safe and restoring functionality. MarkLSteadman (talk) 05:04, 23 October 2026 (UTC)Reply
Note that there is a ticket here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T442082 to make OCR a production service instead of depending on cloud VPS. MarkLSteadman (talk) 19:51, 23 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

I have created the task T442268. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:45, 24 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the work you (Mark and others) have already done. Can we do anything more at this moment, to accelerate the repair process? --Dick Bos (talk) 16:25, 25 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

It's running again! Thanks. --Dick Bos (talk) 19:37, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

It looks like book export and ia upload are up as well. MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:20, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

FYI: How a 139-year-old family document led to my first Wikisource edit

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https://diff.wikimedia.org/2026/10/22/how-a-139-year-old-family-document-led-to-my-first-wikisource-edit/ ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:12, 22 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Server switch - Your wiki will be read-only for a short time soon

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Trizek_(WMF) 14:00, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply

Tech News: 2026-44

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MediaWiki message delivery 18:56, 26 October 2026 (UTC)Reply